Noose at Columbia

[DSE 5]

A noose was found hanging on the door of an African-American professor at Columbia earlier today. Although she is the author of "Addressing Racism: Facilitating Cultural Competence in Mental Health and Educational Settings" and provides lectures on racial justice, it probably wasn't motivated by her color or political leanings, therefore it's not a hate crime.

[lawrocket 3]

There is, in my early estimation, a 50/50 chance that she put the noose up there herself.

It has happened many times in the past where a person commits a hate crime on him or herself to draw attention.

I am withholding judgment, however.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[DSE 5]

Agreed, and if it's found to be so, she should be forced to apologize on national television, summarily fired, then charged with public nuisance and whatever else charges can be brought upon her and anyone who knew/knows.
Perhaps someone with a PhD is dumb enough to do this, but given how quickly the clown that burned crosses in his own yard was caught out...it's a helluva risk.

[ryoder 1,590]

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... hate crime.

I find the whole concept of "hate crime" to be beyond absurd. People should be charged, tried, and convicted based on their actions, not on their thoughts, let alone on what 12 people think the perpetrator was thinking at the time of the crime.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[DSE 5]

I find the concept of committing a crime motivated of bias against other cultures, colors, religions, sexual preferences, or political aspirations to be absurd. The only thing more absurd is being given a free pass on the motivation and being punished for only the action.
The "why" is very much a component of the "what."

[ryoder 1,590]

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I find the concept of committing a crime motivated of bias against other cultures, colors, religions, sexual preferences, or political aspirations to be absurd. The only thing more absurd is being given a free pass on the motivation and being punished for only the action.
The "why" is very much a component of the "what."

So if I killed a black man because I was hired to do it, I should get a lesser sentence than if I killed him because I was a bigot? Why?

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[DSE 5]

Amongst other reasons, killing a black man because you're a bigot inspires fear, intimidation, and has a negative impact upon an entire community borne of that fear and intimidation. Killing a specific black man, such as Martin Luther King, was about putting a component of our society "in their place" as opposed to simply killing a black man.

You don't get a lesser sentence for killing a black man when you're not a bigot. You get a stiffer sentence if it can be proven that because you are a bigot, you were motivated to enact a crime.

Additionally, hate crimes such as assault, vandalism, etc are rarely enacted alone. For you to be a solo performer in a crime motivated by bias would be exceptionally rare. Therefore, collusion and conspiracy are involved. Collusion and conspiracy on their own are enough to get you arrested, before you commit any actual crime. Therefore, collusion and conspiracy are added charges to the actual crime. If you've colluded and conspired based on color, religion, sexual bias, or politics, then it becomes still yet, another add-on component to the charges.
Thankfully, this is a moot discussion, as the laws have been passed both at state and federal levels.

[ryoder 1,590]

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You don't get a lesser sentence for killing a black man when you're not a bigot. You get a stiffer sentence if it can be proven that because you are a bigot, you were motivated to enact a crime.

Semantics. If AA. Charges are increased for cases where there were multiple crimes committed at the same time. e.g. assault with an illegal weapon gets more serious punishment because assault is one crime, and carrying the illegal weapon is another crime. Making a crime more serious because it is a hate crime implies that "hating" is a crime. The whole thing sounds like the thought crimes from "1984".

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Richards 0]

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There is, in my early estimation, a 50/50 chance that she put the noose up there herself.

It has happened many times in the past where a person commits a hate crime on him or herself to draw attention.

Thank god I am not the only person who has thought that. Given that every time one of these non-violent "hate crimes" occur it results in endless attention to racial issues and further sympathy cards to be played by monorities for benefits.

Either redneck racists are their own worst enemy and can't figure that such an act is beneficial to those they are trying to harm or something fishy is going on. I have ben accused of being a paranoid racist for voicing that opinion.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

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[Richards 0]

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You don't get a lesser sentence for killing a black man when you're not a bigot. You get a stiffer sentence if it can be proven that because you are a bigot, you were motivated to enact a crime.

Not trying to stir up shit but has hate crime legislation been applied both ways? If a couple of black youth gang up in some white guy for being a "punk ass white bitch" do they get charged with a hate crime on top of the assault. I am sure that the definition of the law would say so but does that happen in reality? I honestly don't know and would be curious to hear.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Royd 0]

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Either redneck racists are their own worst enemy and can't figure that such an act is beneficial to those they are trying to harm or something fishy is going on. I have ben accused of being a paranoid racist for voicing that opinion.

Or maybe there's a problem that's taboo to address. Elitist liberals have minds full of bigotry and hate.

[DSE 5]

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Not trying to stir up shit but has hate crime legislation been applied both ways? If a couple of black youth gang up in some guy for being a "punk ass white bitch" do they get charged with a hate crime on top of the assault. I am sure that the definition of the law would say so but does that happen in reality? I honestly don't know and would be curious to hear.

Of course the law applies to everyone. As an example, in Guthrie, KY, a white kid was killed by 6 black kids when he displayed a confederate flag on his car. They were charged with, and convicted of murder.
Black business owners where charged with intimidating a Korean store owner in Philly.
There are dozens of examples of the minority crimes against whites, as one example, where the minorities were charged with bias/hate crimes.There are Jew on Jew hate crimes that have been charged.
Gay men have been arrested sharged with assault on straight men.
Both the DOJ and FBI have very specific statistics and not all hate crimes are perpetrated by whites against minorities.

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Making a crime more serious because it is a hate crime implies that "hating" is a crime. The whole thing sounds like the thought crimes from "1984".

Not at all. Hate all you want. Let the hate thrive within you, grow like a vine around your heart. Feed it, nurture it, revel in it, be consumed by it. (bit of trivia, that's a paraphrase from M*A*S*H.)
Verbalize your hate, paint it, write about it/publish it, make video or audio recordings on YouTube. Preach it, broadcast it, proselyte a new religion based on hate. Let it inspire greater hate (is that possible?)

Just don't allow it to motivate a violent act against another human being.

[Richards 0]

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Either redneck racists are their own worst enemy and can't figure that such an act is beneficial to those they are trying to harm or something fishy is going on. I have ben accused of being a paranoid racist for voicing that opinion.

Or maybe there's a problem that's taboo to address. Elitist liberals have minds full of bigotry and hate.

Feel free to elaborate. It sure seems to generate sympathy when these things happen and a minority couldn't possibly ask for better press coverage than to have a noose hung at his door. If I were a racist I would seek ways to attack a public black man without generating publicity that would work to his advantage.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Richards 0]

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Making a crime more serious because it is a hate crime implies that "hating" is a crime. The whole thing sounds like the thought crimes from "1984".

Not at all. Hate all you want. Let the hate thrive within you, grow like a vine around your heart. Feed it, nurture it, revel in it, be consumed by it. (bit of trivia, that's a paraphrase from M*A*S*H.)
Verbalize your hate, paint it, write about it/publish it, make video or audio recordings on YouTube. Preach it, broadcast it, proselyte a new religion based on hate. Let it inspire greater hate (is that possible?)

Just don't allow it to motivate a violent act against another human being.

That misses the point. Why is it more of a crime to hurt someone out of racism than out of other reasons? An assault is an assault.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[DSE 5]

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[ An assault is an assault.

Okay.
Most of the free world disagrees.

[Richards 0]

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[ An assault is an assault.

Okay.
Most of the free world disagrees.

I hate to play this card but.........source?

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[DSE 5]

Aside from the fact that virtually every society in the free world has hate crime legislation?
Try google. You'd be amazed at what you'll find.

[Richards 0]

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Aside from the fact that virtually every society in the free world has hate crime legislation?
Try google. You'd be amazed at what you'll find.

So governments in the free world always pass laws with the interests of the majority in mind and not to suck up to a specific community for political gain?

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Royd 0]

Either redneck racists are their own worst enemy and can't figure that such an act is beneficial to those they are trying to harm or something fishy is going on. I have ben accused of being a paranoid racist for voicing that opinion.

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Or maybe there's a problem that's taboo to address. Elitist liberals have minds full of bigotry and hate.

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Feel free to elaborate. It sure seems to generate sympathy when these things happen and a minority couldn't possibly ask for better press coverage than to have a noose hung at his door. If I were a racist I would seek ways to attack a public black man without generating publicity that would work to his advantage

I'm not saying that she didn't do, although, I was flamed for making that suggestion about the Jena incident.

As far as the liberals, it is a Northern, liberal institution, so 'rednecks' are pretty much out of the equation.
Yes, I do believe that liberals, especially politicians, are quite pleased when a segment of the society remains in the 'Poor me' victimhood mentality. It gives them a constituency.

[ryoder 1,590]

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Either redneck racists are their own worst enemy...

If you want to see an excellent example of them doing exactly that, rent this movie:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101479/

In a nutshell, the movie was made simply sitting down with bigots, turning on the camera, and letting them talk, only occasionally asking them a question. It is amazing what fools they can make of themselves with no help at all.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Richards 0]

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I'm not saying that she didn't do, although, I was flamed for making that suggestion about the Jena incident.

The whole Jena incedent is irritating. Yes the students who hung the noose should have been penalized more heavily and racsim is ugly but you cannot equate a ugly message with a violent six on one assault. It also drives me nuts when the "n" word being spoken seems to provide some special exemption or "blank check permission" for a black man to throw aside all restraint and fly off into a violent rage on whoever offended him. People have said all kinds of humiliating and hurtfull things to me in my life....I do not get five of my "homies" to help me kick the fuck out of someone who does that. I exercise restraint. Call me crazy but I highly suspect that even a black man in the presence of the "n"word has the capacity as a human being to exercise that same restraint. Unfortunately society suddenly suspends a black mans responsibility to exercise restraint when he hears the "n" word and beleive that somehow his victimhood forced him into the subsequent violent rage and he should be handled with kid gloves. Thus black men have no incentive to exercise that restraint when offended because as soon as the "n" word pops up no-one expects him to.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[DSE 5]

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Either redneck racists are their own worst enemy...

If you want to see an excellent example of them doing exactly that, rent this movie:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101479/

In a nutshell, the movie was made simply sitting down with bigots, turning on the camera, and letting them talk, only occasionally asking them a question. It is amazing what fools they can make of themselves with no help at all.

Fun film to watch, as is "American History X" with Ed Norton. Neither film is accurately indicative of racism or bias in America. These films are both depictions of extremes. Unfortunately, they are both indicative of what most white people consider to be racism in America. I've met very few redneck racists in my life, but have met many well-educated, articulate, even wealthy self-made men who are worse animals than Thom Robb.
Bias crime goes far beyond racism, BTW. Somewhere in the ether, that point seems to be missed. Everyone seems to want to point at "the black man" which is revealing in and of itself.

[NCclimber 0]

It seems to me that most of the people who scream and rant about racism are themselves models of intolerance.

[Richards 0]

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Everyone seems to want to point at "the black man" which is revealing in and of itself.

[DSE 5]

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It seems to me that most of the people who scream and rant about racism are themselves models of intolerance.

I don't want to be merely tolerated because of my skin color, cultural heritage, religion. I want to be accepted as an equal. I won't tolerate anything less.